Terence on CompuServe
Terence on CompuServe
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1993 17:41:33
(1-7,Rilla) Roger, will you introduce Terence? BTW… welcome Terence!
(1-7,Rilla) It is great to have you…
(1-7,Rilla) here with us in the New Age Forum! Roger, ga
(1-9,Roger) Sure…
(1-9,Roger) I have been working with Terence for about the…
(1-9,Roger) last six months on the MAcintosh version of…
(1-9,Roger) Timewave Zero. This was my first introduction to a …
(1-9,Roger) man that I have since grown to admire very much for his…
(1-9,Roger) edge of the universe train of thought and suprisingly…
(1-9,Roger) surprisingly…
(1-9,Roger) lucid thinking. If you have read The Archaic Revival…
(1-9,Roger) you have some idea of what I’m refering to — if not stay …
(1-9,Roger) tuned — you’re in for a great ride… Here’s Terence… ga
(1-7,Rilla) Okay, Terence? An introductory statement?
(1-9,Terence) Not really, I guess that my rep…
(1-9,Terence) has been based on a willingness to defind…
(1-9,Terence) the psychedelic experience and to take seriously…
(1-9,Terence) the sorts of ideas that one can bring back from over …
(1-9,Terence) the mental edge ga
(1-7,Rilla) Okay, Mehran ga
(1-1,mehran ariani) Concering the nat concerinh the nature of soma…
(1-1,mehran ariani) Aghori Vimalanda of india claims…
(1-1,mehran ariani) that soma is a type of leafless crthat soma is a type of…
(1-1,mehran ariani) leafless creeper and…
(1-1,mehran ariani) most people think it is amanita..
(1-1,mehran ariani) and only rishis (seer) know…
(1-1,mehran ariani) the true identity of soma.ga
(1-9,Terence) Recently there has been some progress on this question…
(1-9,Terence) The book to take a look at is by david Schwartz…
(1-9,Terence) and Flattery, it is called haoma and harmaline…
(1-9,Terence) and is Near Eastern Studies Publication #23…
(1-9,Terence) from UC Press. What is suggested there, based…
(1-25,Don D) ?
(1-9,Terence) on the Avestan literature of the Zoroasterian…
(1-9,Terence) Religion is that probably the Giant Syrian Rue…
(1-9,Terence) Pergamum harmala could, by itself have served…
(1-9,Terence) as the basis for Soma. The Amanita theory is now…
(1-9,Terence) in disfoavor for anumber of reasons. …
(1-9,Terence) Amanita is hard to become reliably intoxicated on and is rare even where it does occur ga
(1-7,Rilla) Mehran? Follow up?
(1-1,mehran ariani) thank you i wait…
(1-7,Rilla) okay, Don ga
(1-1,mehran ariani) for someone else to ask for now.not for now thank you terence.ga
(1-25,Don D) Terrance, I am unfamiliar with you work at this point…
(1-25,Don D) However, I would like to know if you have studied…
(1-25,Don D) the relation between LSD experiences and occult claims…
(1-25,Don D) to psychic abilities. What I am getting at is…
(1-25,Don D) that both are very similar. ga
(1-9,Terence) Yes, you are quite right. Stan Grof makes this…
(1-9,Terence) point in several of his books. It does seems as though…
(1-9,Terence) there is something about the psychedelic…
(1-9,Terence) experience that lowers the threshold to sychronistic…
(1-9,Terence) events, or some psychic or mental factor that makes…
(1-9,Terence) unusualy events and encounters more lilely…
(1-9,Terence) in those times when a person is intoicated…
(1-9,Terence) I believe that this is related to the fact that…
(1-6,David Cole) ?
(1-9,Terence) the world is actually somehow make of language…
(1-9,Terence) and that this normally supprssed state of affaris is…
(1-9,Terence) more noticable during psychedelic experiences ga
(1-7,Rilla) Don? A follow up?
(1-25,Don D) Yes…
(1-25,Don D) Terrence, I would suggest that, first, knowing that…
(1-25,Don D) occult/yoga theory is very well established…
(1-25,Don D) and second, that LSD is a physiochemical event…
(1-25,Don D) that, through the LSD experience we can come to…
(1-25,Don D) develop a potentially very precise understanding…
(1-25,Don D) of the mechanisms of psychic abilities…
(1-25,Don D) More precisesly, I believe that LSD and similar substances…
(1-25,Don D) trigger off the kundalini energy in a spontaneous…
(1-25,Don D) and uncontrolable fashion, and that this type of…
(1-25,Don D) explanatory framework can go far to explain many…
(1-13,Dean) ?
(1-25,Don D) so-called psychic type phenomena that are currently…
(1-25,Don D) unexplainable within accepted academic frameworks…
(1-25,Don D) A quick plug here, but I have a file called HALLUCIN.DOC…
(1-25,Don D) in this forum that elaborates such a line of thought. ga
(1-9,Terence) Well, if has always seemed to me that one of the great…
(1-9,Terence) loses that we suffered when psychedelics were…
(1-9,Terence) made illegal was the opportunity to understand…
(1-9,Terence) the relation of these states of mind to Calssical yogic and mystical…
(1-9,Terence) states. Even the Yogic Sutras of Patanjali…
(1-9,Terence) early second century text on yoga…
(1-9,Terence) speaks of the magical and transforming power…
(1-9,Terence) of life giving herbs. The fact is that the window…
(1-9,Terence) of opportunity was simply to narrow to allow…
(1-9,Terence) us to properly study the potential of psychedelics..
(1-9,Terence) before they were make illegal ga
(1-7,Rilla) Okay…David GA
(1-6,David Cole) Terence, could you comment on the…
(1-6,David Cole) relationship between increasing…
(1-6,David Cole) global information flow (bandwidth)…
(1-6,David Cole) and the Timewave. ga
(1-9,Terence) Well the Timewave is a graphic method of portraying…
(1-9,Terence) the evolution of complexity in time. One wwy to think…
(1-1,mehran ariani) ?
(1-9,Terence) of complexity is as denity of connectefness…
(1-9,Terence) You know it was McLuhan who actually belived that…the age of electricity marked …
(1-9,Terence) the descent of the Holy Ghost. For McLuhan…
(1-9,Terence) the global information net of electrical energey…
(1-9,Terence) was actually a kind of metaphysical event of some…
(1-9,Terence) sort ga
(1-7,Rilla) David? Follow up?
(1-6,David Cole) Thanks, no followup. ga
(1-7,Rilla) Dean GA
(1-13,Dean) In modern society, “tribes” seem to be defined more …
(1-13,Dean) by friendship and like-mindedness than proximity & family …
(1-13,Dean) ties — being linked together by fast communication and (1-13,Dean) fast transportation. What do you feel is the …
(1-13,Dean) role of the modern shaman to his or her “tribe”.
(1-13,Dean) ga
(1-9,Terence) The shaman has pretty much the same function in…
(1-9,Terence) all times and places; that of a go-between, someone…
(1-9,Terence) who can actually leave behind the conventions of…
(1-9,Terence) the group, the conventionalized linguistic space…
(1-18,Chris) ?
(1-9,Terence) and journey instead into the supramundane world…
(1-9,Terence) a kind of hyperspace where “real” power is available…
(1-9,Terence) I see the modern shaman as fulfilling that same function…
(1-9,Terence) the world is not yet so well understood that we …
(1-12,Steve Gorney) ?
(1-9,Terence) can assume with confidence that we have mapped the major…
(1-9,Terence) continest of reality, the shamens are still stretching…
(1-9,Terence) the envelope for the rest of us ga
(1-7,Rilla) Dean? Follow up?
(1-13,Dean) No follow up. Thanks Terence!
(1-13,Dean) ga
(1-7,Rilla) Mehran> GA
(1-1,mehran ariani) terence, i like your opinion…
(1-1,mehran ariani) on a experience i had with
(1-1,mehran ariani) …
(1-1,mehran ariani) extrect of belladona…
(1-1,mehran ariani) basically during my experience…
(1-1,mehran ariani) i had an encounter with an entity..
(1-1,mehran ariani) i asked if he is basically…
(1-1,mehran ariani) from my imagination and for…
(1-1,mehran ariani) proof he offered to give me…
(1-1,mehran ariani) a proof by foretelling an event…
(1-1,mehran ariani) that would take place the next day..
(1-1,mehran ariani) the event took place at exact time..
(1-1,mehran ariani) and place which tells me this…
(1-1,mehran ariani) is not just hallucination …
(1-1,mehran ariani) can you tell me about thsi…
(1-1,mehran ariani) subject.ga
(1-9,Terence) Well it is true that some of the entities that…
(1-9,Terence) shamans and psychedelic trippers encounter…
(1-9,Terence) seem to have a different relationship to casuality..
(1-9,Terence) that we denizens of ordinary space/time…
(1-9,Terence) have. A shamen will tell you that this is not…
(1-9,Terence) a big deal but then a shaman doesn’t …
(1-9,Terence) realize how important to scientific rationalism…
(1-9,Terence) the ordinary casuality is. I believe your story,…
(1-9,Terence) I think that strange states of mind give us an…
(1-9,Terence) opportunity to see beyond the confines of …
(1-25,Don D) ?
(1-9,Terence) cultural expectations into surreal world that is…
(1-9,Terence) somewhat in the process of being created even…
(1-9,Terence) as we look at it, like a dream, but a lving dream ga
(1-7,Rilla) Mehran? Follow up?
(1-1,mehran ariani) no thank you terence.ga
(1-7,Rilla) Chris GA
(1-23,Leo) ?
(1-7,Rilla) Chris?
(1-18,Chris) Once you’ve been transformed by drugs or yoga…
(1-18,Chris) should you continue using a method, that may…
(1-18,Chris) bring no new experience…
(1-18,Chris) or result in attachment to the method…
(1-2,Rick B) ?
(1-18,Chris) rather than the experience itself. ga
(1-9,Terence) It is hard to imagine that one might …
(1-9,Terence) exhaust the psychedelic experience, I have…
(1-9,Terence) the feeling when I am tripping that what I see…
(1-9,Terence) has never been seen before and will …
(1-9,Terence) probably never be seen again. As for the question…
(1-9,Terence) of attachment, I suppose that is a problem…
(1-9,Terence) we are certain to become attached to any method…
(1-9,Terence) that works. The nice thing about plants and psychedelics…
(1-9,Terence) is that there is no beady eyed teacher attached who…
(1-9,Terence) is interested having you sweep up around the ashram…
(1-9,Terence) for a dozen years before he lets you in on the inner…
(1-9,Terence) slinny ga
(1-7,Rilla) Chris? Follow up?
(1-18,Chris) Yes…
(1-18,Chris) do you feel there is a difference…
(1-18,Chris) between natural and artificial drugs…
(1-18,Chris) and do you feel bio-technology will create new…
(1-18,Chris) drug or methods without side effects?
(1-18,Chris) ga
(1-9,Terence) I have sort of a sheldrakian approach to that…
(1-9,Terence) it seems to me that when we take a drug or a plant…
(1-9,Terence) that in some sense it takes us. In other words the…
(1-9,Terence) content of a given plant is made up of all the trips…
(1-9,Terence) of all the people who have ever taken it…
(1-9,Terence) it a drug is new it is in a sense empty and…
(1-9,Terence) it will take time for it to aquire the richness…
(1-9,Terence) of a susstance that has been used for thousands…
(1-19,Shadow Hawk) ?
(1-9,Terence) of years. In principle thought I expect modern…
(1-9,Terence) pharmacology to bring us very specific and exciting…
(1-9,Terence) compounds in the future. Almost certainly ga
(1-7,Rilla) Steve GA
(1-12,Steve Gorney) Hola Terence, have you found any historical data on…
(1-12,Steve Gorney) the relationship of dolphins to psychedelics…
(1-12,Steve Gorney) or “other dimensionalism”?… ga
(1-3,Terence) Not sure I understand the question. It is true…
(1-3,Terence) that dolphins occur in freshwater in only two…
(1-3,Terence) locations on the planet and that is the amazon and the Ganges..
(1-3,Terence) What that means I am not sure. Rgiht now there is alot of …
(1-3,Terence) interest in extracting psychochemicals and other…
(1-3,Terence) interesting compounds from the life in the sea. But …
(1-3,Terence) dolphins specifically, no ga
(1-7,Rilla) Steve follow up?
(1-12,Steve Gorney) No, thank you Terence, bye Aqyathought!
(1-7,Rilla) Okay…Don D you still here?
(1-2,Rick B) don left
(1-7,Rilla) Leo ga
(1-23,Leo) Hi guys!…offf of the dolphins, this might be a good lead in..
(1-23,Leo) to my ‘special curiosities’ for Terence… Terence off of what..
(1-23,Leo) you have written about the Voynich Manuscript, and off of…
(1-23,Leo) your notion about language being the ‘basis of reality’…
(1-23,Leo) I was wondering if you had any notions on some of the crop of…
(1-23,Leo) current ‘literature’ that may be bleeding over from some of..
(1-23,Leo) those ‘chattering, elf-infested spaces’ you have spoken so..
(1-23,Leo) invitingly of… I know that Roger has done some work with..
(1-23,Leo) the Course in Miracles, and the Urantia Book comes to mind…
(1-23,Leo) as another example, and of course there seems to be much..
(1-23,Leo) ‘interdimensional communication’ occurring now on many fronts…
(1-23,Leo) ga..
(1-3,Terence) Well, there is certainly no shortage of voices from…
(1-3,Terence) the Other whispering and shouting for our attention…
(1-3,Terence) the problem seems to be that too many people claim…
(1-3,Terence) too iin depth a familiarity with these spaces. Whitley Strieberand ..
(1-3,Terence) the abductees for example. I am hppy to report that I only encounter…
(1-3,Terence) alinens with psychedelics and would be very alarmed…
(1-3,Terence) if things were to happen any differently. Sometimes people ask…
(1-3,Terence) if it possible to make these connections on the natch…
(1-3,Terence) My question is who would want to. Better to corral the little tykes within…
(1-3,Terence) the confines of a dependable emthod than have them running about at..
(1-3,Terence) unexpected and inappropriate moments. Nes Pa? ga
(1-7,Rilla) Leo? Follow up?
(1-23,Leo) I suppose this notion of ‘dependable method’ could lead into …
(1-23,Leo) some sort of psychobotanical-fundamentalisms if we dont..
(1-23,Leo) watch out!… I think it was Stuart Brand who likened computers…
(1-23,Leo) (and information by implication) to the drugs of the 60s…
(1-23,Leo) saying that unlike the drugs of the 60s, with computers and…
(1-23,Leo) informtaion, there seemed to be no ‘self-limiting’ factor..
(1-23,Leo) which leads into some considerations of ‘what is natural’…
(1-23,Leo) and/or dependable… my original lead-in from the dolphins..
(1-23,Leo) was from Timothy wyllie’s ‘Dolphins, ETs, and Angels’ which …
(1-23,Leo) relates Dolphins being sensitive to our con levels, prophecy…
(1-23,Leo) coming in in novel linguistic forms, etc… my only concern…
(1-23,Leo) re the speculation from Brand, is that if he’s right, does this…
(1-23,Leo) mean that there will be an “war on info” like we’ve had a “war on..
(1-23,Leo) drugs”., all as we hurtle on toward 2012!! ga.
(1-3,Terence) Well, it seems to me that in fact the war on psychedelics is a…
(1-3,Terence) kind of war on information. After all the real impact of the psychedelics…
(1-3,Terence) is that they change peoples attitudes toward themselves and society…
(1-3,Terence) that is very subversive stuff. As for method of encontering elves and such…
(1-3,Terence) I think that we can be good old American ppragamatists in …
(1-3,Terence) that domaine. It is a matter of using what works. if someone…
(1-3,Terence) is not sure that have had an alien encounter then the odds…
(1-3,Terence) are that they have not. ga
(1-7,Rilla) Rick GA
(1-2,Rick B) “And now for something completely different”…
(1-2,Rick B) What books are on your “nightstand” right now?
(1-2,Rick B) ga
(1-3,Terence) Senor Vivo and the Coca Lord is a great latin american novel that I just finished reading…
(1-3,Terence) I also like Steve Erickson’s novel tours of the Black clock ga (1-7,Rilla) Rick? Follow up?(1-2,Rick B) Is ecstasy an artificial or natural substance?
(1-2,Rick B) ga
(1-3,Terence) Basically it is an artificial substance made by further elaboration …
(1-3,Terence) of a molecules that does occur in nature…
(1-3,Terence) many modern drugs are near relatives of natural products ga
(1-7,Rilla) Mehran> GA
(1-1,mehran ariani) terence, first for those intersted in …
(1-1,mehran ariani) human-dolphin dialogue trough use of…
(1-1,mehran ariani) hallucinogens they should read john lilly’s…
(1-1,mehran ariani) The Scientist, and now for my question…
(1-1,mehran ariani) after All the botany I have read i can not find…
(1-1,mehran ariani) the function of psychedelic substances in plants..
(1-1,mehran ariani) could you elaborate on that please.ga
(1-3,Terence) The honest answer is that no one is really sure…
(1-3,Terence) one school belives that psychedelics are attractancts for…
(1-3,Terence) pollenation, another school holds that they make the plant …
(1-3,Terence) tast bad and so discourage predation. The facts are that a significant…
(1-3,Terence) portion of the plant’s energy is goijng into the pr9oduction…
(1-3,Terence) and sequestering of these compounds so they must be doing something..
(1-3,Terence) the problem is that at this point, like so much about nature,
(1-3,Terence) we have no idea what is happening ga
(1-7,Rilla) Mehran? Follow up?
(1-1,mehran ariani) yes…
(1-1,mehran ariani) is it concivebale that nature has provided us…
(1-1,mehran ariani) with a tool to communicate to higher or…
(1-1,mehran ariani) different dimensions (paralle universes?)…
(1-1,mehran ariani) through use of these plats.ga
(1-3,Terence) It is certainly possible. I don’t think most people realize…
(1-3,Terence) how very literal the conversations with the mushroom are…
(1-3,Terence) what does it mean that a plant that present itself in…
(1-3,Terence) consciousness as a speaking voice? The skeptic feel free to dismiss such …
(1-3,Terence) a phenomenon as only accessible to weak minds but thouse of us…
(1-3,Terence) who have done our homework know just how strange and real…
(1-3,Terence) this sort of thing can be ga
(1-7,Rilla) Okay…
(1-7,Rilla) I have a question for you and then we will take…
(1-7,Rilla) one more…
(1-7,Rilla) I was interested in you comment earlier…
(1-7,Rilla) about the connection of Language…
(1-7,Rilla) to Reality…
(1-7,Rilla) are you speaking of language in the way…
(1-7,Rilla) that Bandler and Grinder describe it…
(1-7,Rilla) in the STRUCTURE OF LANGUAGE? GA
(1-4,Warren Schultz) send 10 oh right, him.
(1-3,Terence) I don’t really know the NLP stuff well enough to compare my own…
(1-3,Terence) ideas to theirs. I think of language in the same way as it is..
(1-12,Steve Gorney) Kathi, I think I’ll be in NY on the 13th!
(1-3,Terence) presented in Mishia Landaws book the Narrative Evolution…
(1-3,Terence) the idea there is that we tile over reality with words. So that…
(1-3,Terence) by the time we are three or four whatever mystery there was…
(1-3,Terence) for us in the world has been completely replaced by a local…
(1-3,Terence) vocabulary for all phenomena. This takes the wonder away from life…
(1-3,Terence) and leaves us the prisoners of our langue. This is not a good situation…
(1-3,Terence) for us to be as the original impluse for language was to take us…
(1-3,Terence) ointo a doman of yet greater freedom. ga
(1-1,mehran ariani) ?
(1-7,Rilla) Okay….thanks Terence…
(1-7,Rilla) mehran > GA
(1-1,mehran ariani) terence, is there a way that we…
(1-1,mehran ariani) independent researchers can share or…
(1-1,mehran ariani) send our findings to you in future…
(1-1,mehran ariani) for me you are my Guru and I would…
(1-1,mehran ariani) like to share my findings with you.ga
(1-3,Terence) If you will send your address to roger clay via e mail he will see that…
(1-3,Terence) your are put in communication with me. Good luck ga
(1-7,Rilla) okay…
(1-7,Rilla) Thank you very much ,Terence…
(1-23,Leo) ?
(1-7,Rilla) this was a GREAT conference! …
(1-7,Rilla) Leo… a quick one? We have to let these…
(1-7,Rilla) guys at their dinner. GA
(1-23,Leo) OK quick — I get ’language as scaffolding” and to move on..
(1-23,Leo) to greater freedom, but what about language as naming..
(1-23,Leo) and sharing,, for example, so we know what is a..
(1-23,Leo) poisonous herb and iwll kill us, and which not..go
(1-23,Leo) ga, that is!
(1-3,Terence) Language is basically a behavior, it can be for communication…
(1-3,Terence) for information, or simply for enteratainment ga
(1-23,Leo) Thank you for yours Terence — your cachet is intoxicating!
(1-8,Margaret) Enjoyed it Terence!Rilla! TY..my mind is stimulated.night all
(1-7,Rilla) Thanks again, Terence!
(1-7,Rilla) And thanks to Roger for setting this up…
(1-7,Rilla) and facilitating things on your end!
(1-3,Terence) It was a pleasure talking with you. Lets do this again sometime ga
(1-10,kathi rogers) clap, clap.